What would be better - a Sox and Yankees ALCS, or another ALDS exit for New York

I don't like the New York Yankees. In fact, though I respect their track record, I detest almost everything about them. The players - many of which are arrogant primadonnas who have a sense of entitlement. The owner - who is mostly responsible for the game transforming from a sport into a business by paying inflated salaries, which forced other owners to do the same to at least try to keep up. The fans - many who live in yesteryear, touting the team's 26 World Series titles, but disappear when the Yankees fall into a losing skid or experience an early post-season exit.

Yes, the Yankees have no excuse not to reach the playoffs every season. They have financial resources and advantages that even the Boston Red Sox, New York Mets, Chicago Cubs and Los Angeles Angels lack. They are the only team that can field an All-Star at every position. So their season is indeed a failure if they do not at least reach the World Series.

That said, don't confuse my distaste of all things New York Yankees with hatred. Friends will tell you that I am the most calm and laid back person they know. I can honestly say I do not "hate" anyone or anything. I am even friends with a few Yankees fans, and when I am out and about and wearing Red Sox apparel, it is rare when I do not get a comment or engage in conversation with a Yankees fan (or Red Sox fan) about baseball and the rivalry. Even here in Orlando, if you go to a grocery store adorned with Red Sox or Yankees apparel, chances are you will encounter a fan of the rival team and enter into a friendly discussion.

This leads me to the point of writing this post. Thanks to the combination of John Henry, Tom Werner, Theo Epstein and Terry Francona, the Red Sox are among the best franchises in baseball. It will be that way for the long term because of the ownership's willingness to spend the money to acquire key free agents and trade targets, and the team's commitment to developing its' own players. The Sox no longer dwell in the Yankees shadow. Boston can compete with the Yankees. There is no longer reason to fear the Evil Empire. So the question is, "As a Red Sox fan, who do you root for in the Indians-Yankees series?"

Though the Sox have a 1-0 lead over the Los Angeles Angels, the series is far from over. Yet, if Boston does win, it will inevitably face either the Indians or the Yankees. It was gratifying in 2004 to stage the most dramatic comeback in the history of sports by erasing a 3-0 deficit in the ALCS to defeat the Yankees and then win the World Series. It was equally heartbreaking in 2003, when Grady Little stuck with Pedro Martinez one batter too long and then Aaron Boone hit Tim Wakefield's pitch in the left field seats, suddenly ending what was shaping into a magical post-season for the Sox.

Truth is, the Indians are better than the Yankees. They are playing solid baseball right now, they are young and scrappy, and they have a 1-2 punch that outshines Chien-Ming Wang and Andy Pettitte. Of course, the Yankees are formidable. Though their starting pitching is average, and their bullpen is subpar, they do have the most potent offense in baseball. I'm a firm believer that pitching, and not offense, wins championships. If you have solid pitching, and enough offense, your chances of winning the World Series are better than if you have an exceptional offense and marginal pitching, which is what defines the 2007 Yankees.

The Red Sox match up well against both teams. Yankees fans and even some the-sky-is-falling Red Sox fans like to point out that, when you compare the two teams' position players one by one, the Sox get the nod with only David Ortiz at DH, Kevin Youkilis at first base and Manny Ramirez in left field. That is a weak argument. Baseball is not played on paper. It is a team sport composed of 25 players. The Yankees have the better lineup. The Sox have better pitching and defense. The Yankees have a better collection of players. The Sox have a better team.

So while I enjoy every loss the Yankees experience, I would rather see the Sox and Yankees in the ALCS. I am confident the Sox will be there. I'm not so sure about the Yankees. My prediction for that series is the Indians in five. How do you feel, members of Red Sox Nation? Would you like to see the Sox and Yankees in the ALCS, or would you be fine with the Bombers tasting yet another first round exit? Simply put, I'm comfortable with either scenario.

Comments

[nrs]

It would be sweet to beat the Yankees in the ALCS, but I think its sweeter still to see them lose in the first round. It would only highlight the fact that the Sox are No. 1 in the East this year, and that the Yankees are not a great playoff team because of their mediocre pitching.

[Christina]

Jeff, I have been asking myself this same question and wondering what my answer is. Here's what I am torn between. It would be awesome to see the Yankee's go down at the hands of the Indians because it would mean another first round exit. How would Yankee Land handle that? How would it affect the current team, its makeup, and the future of the franchise? All that being said, there is a part of me that wants another 2004 ALCS. Don't get me wrong, I don't want being down 3 games and having to come back; as absolutely thrilling as that was, I'm not sure if my heart could take it again! Still, I feel the need to keep proving to the world that we can beat the Yankees, and beat them on the big stage. So, while there is part of me that is hesitant to take them on due to the strange things that tend to happen between these two teams, the other part is confident the Red Sox will win out because of heart and good ball playing. I say, bring it on, Yankees! The satisfaction I get from the Sox beating the Yankees is like no other, and I think it would give the team incredible momentum and prove that 2004 wasn't just a fluke. We are the 2007 AL East Division Champs!

[Michael Loeb]

Full disclosure: I am what most would call a “die-hard” Yankee fan. I enjoy reading this blog because it highlights the most heated rivalry in sports today. It does not pretend to be objective and offers the thoughts of people who have a vested interest in the topic (if only their pride). All that being said, Jeff, I’m disappointed in your post.

The Yankees created this “World Series or Bust” philosophy when they were in the midst of winning four out of five. It seemed appropriate at the time. But as Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated points out, “the 90s are over.” I wish the Yanks could play cupcakes like the ’96 Texas Rangers in the first round again. Consider that in 2001, ’02, ’03, and ’04 the Yanks lost to the eventual World Series champ. Last year, they lost to the Tigers who went to the Series. This year, the Indians are arguably baseball’s best team. The fact of the matter is, baseball is more competitive now than before. This includes the Red Sox. This self-inflicted standard is erroneous and obsolete, even if the Yanks created it and the likes of Jeter and Torre keep saying it. As a fan, I disagree and think it’s aiming for near perfection, which no one can always accomplish

I enjoyed watching this team come back year and win the Wild Card. They looked down and out in May, but persevered and put some pressure on the Sox. Do I really care about the division title? Sure. But, only to sting the Sox. I am much happier that the Yanks are in the postseason and have a chance to succeed again. There is no question that this team has accomplished a lot in the second half and makes this fan proud.

As for living in yesteryear, most of friends and I talk about the late 90s and 2000s. This is not yesteryear. I think this completely legitimate. We don’t sit back, put up our feet, and chat about the great 1951 Yankees. Please. Where are the rules that say that discussions must be limited to the current season? If there were such rules, then I guess we must bar all discussion of the 2004 Red sox. It would be in yesteryear. As would Brady’s greatness in those Super Bowls. Can’t talk about them. As for the Celtics’ 16 championships? Sorry, it was too long ago.

As for Steinbrenner changing baseball from a sport to a business, I have one question: Are you kidding me? Are you suggesting that baseball was not always a business? Why do you think the A’s left Philly? Why do you think the Dodgers and Giants left New York? Why do you think the Braves left Boston? The answer: economics. They left less economically favorable situations for more favorable ones. In my view, Steinbrenner is doing a great service to baseball. Go ask the Kansas City Royals who sell out Kauffman Stadium for a weekend when the Yanks come to town but can hardly fill it to 20,000 fans otherwise. I think Steinbrenner is increasing the ante and the likes of the Angels, Tigers, Indians, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, and Mets are matching the bet. Sounds like capitalism and competition to me. And, as stated before, it is working.

Lastly, I can summarize this rivalry briefly. The Yankees compete, economically, most directly with the Mets and still fill up their 56,000 stadium and they still keep many bleacher seats for about $12 a pop. The fact is, any New Yorker can still go to a Yankee game. And that’s what happens. You see a diverse slice of this city at the Stadium. And when I ask my friend from Newton about going up and seeing the Sox play, he contends that that is not so easy. Often, he says, you need to know someone. Okay, that’s great.

I hate this exclusivity. And yes, there is definitely some of that around the Yankees, but any fan from any socioeconomic background can see a game. Are Sox fans the most educated in the game? Well I suppose that would be true since it is always the same slice of fans that “know someone” and can go to a game. What a joke. This is baseball, America’s pastime. Not the university club. Here’s to taking down a nation that has those values, whether it is conscious of it or not.

[LMT]

Jeff, I have a question..you have stated before your dislike for many Yankee players because of their primmadonna arrogant attitudes, and I have no doubt that it exists, but can you give me examples. Purely for interest on my part since I never seem to read about the players behaving like that. So, if you have some examples of their behavior could you share them? Thanks.
As far as the matchups, I have to say I would enjoy a first round Yankee exit yet again. I would like to see them make an early exit in October. I am rooting for them to lose to Cleveland (I so enjoyed last night!). To think that a team that carries the "stars" it carries and the payroll to match could not get it done would be humorous. But I am also a realist and I do believe they will pull this off...they have shown remarkable resiliance this season, and made it to the playoffs despite their atrocious start to the season. I just don't think they will fold, or maybe I should say I'd be surprised if they folded. They kept the heat on us at the end of the season. They are like the gum on the bottom of your shoe, they aren't going away...as much as I would like them to. But.....anything can happen, I will be rooting for Cleveland tonight.

Go Sox!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Christina]

Michael, I am a poor college student from the South, and not the "old, rich South," but the kid of Air Force brats, people that are making it on one income and raising their kids at home. We are by no means socialites and I drive a beat up 1989 Mercury Sable that I wish I could drive into the ocean. I was able to see 3 games in 2005, 2 in 2006, and 1 in 2007, and I didn't have to know anyone to get tickets, only how to use the internet. The only reason I went to less games in 2006 and 2007 is because I moved out of state and had to fly back for those games. You can't tell me someone can walk up to Yankee Stadium on game day and buy a $12 ticket, can you? If so, that is awesome. Sox tickets take some planning, but I love our ball park and I didn't have to know anyone to get my tickets. I even paid under $30 for 4 out of 6 of those games. The other two were Yankee's games and I didn't mind paying: the first was Damon's first time back, and the second was our four homers in a row night. God thought I should get to see some good games for flying all the way from SC...

[Geoff]

I guess it's my turn to add to this. First and foremost, I'm a baseball fan. Though I come from New England, I try not to give into the fanboy hysteria and overwhelming hate of the Yankees that every Sox fan feels obligated to share.

The Yankees are one of the all-time great franchises in American sports. In terms of dominance over the years, they're right there with the Celtics and Montreal Canadians. You can't discount the 26 World Series Championships and the 50 some-odd playoff births. This averages out to a playoff appearance every other year, and a WS Win every 4. Those are impressive numbers. Many of Baseball's all time greats have worn pinstripes. Micky Mantle, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Whitey Ford, Yoga Berra. The Yankees are one of the most symbolic icons of America, almost patriotic on scale.
Everybody who likes the sport feels passionately about the Yankees, Love or Hate.

That said, my outstanding issue with the Yankees revolve around the owner. Steinbrenner has not been great for the sport. He's created the WS or Bust mentality that New Yorkers have come to expect, that sense of entitlement that we all have come to hate. He's singlehandedly made Free-Agency decidedly uneven, and is somewhat responsible for the ridiculous salaries fielded by elite players. Not all is bad with the Man, he has brought alot of money into the sport, and now other clubs due to revenue sharing. But he should of stayed banned from baseball, perid.

He is not even the person to thank for that incredible run the Yankee's had in the late 90's. Jeter, Posada, Pettie, Rivera, and Williams were all prospects signed and developed during Steinnbrenner's banishment from baseball(1990-1993). Gene Micheal was the man who did it all. They would have been traded for Veteran players had George been running the show.

After the world series loss in 2001, George went back to his old ways, fielding all-star hitters, neglecting the farm system and signing aging marquee pitchers. While the regular seasons have been great, the postseason has been decidedly sub par, usually due to inadequate pitching and fielding.

Things have looked better in recent years. In 05 the GM Brian Cashman was given greater control over the farm and the greater organization, resulting in some promising prospects and great young position players (Cano, Cabrera). Going back to the recipe of strong starting pitching with guys such as Wang, Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain - the Yankees look poised to be a more balanced and younger club for years to come.

2007 is one of the last "George" club you'll ever see. The Yankees will scale back offensively, looking to develop more complete position players who can field and come up with timely hits. Run prevention is more important than runs scored. Winning by one run is just as good as winning by 10 runs. If you don't give up more than 3-4 runs a game, a merely "average" offense is all you need. By bulking up the bullpen and defense, the team will be more poised to succeed in the postseason, which is what counts.

Right now, this team is focused in all of the wrong areas to compete in the postseason. The back of the bullpen is good with Rivera, Chamberlain, and Vizcaino, but the middle relief will be the undoing. If your starters aren't going to last much past the 5th inning, you need great middle guys to shut the door and give the offense a chance to catch up or put the game away. Also, the Yankees lack power pitchers who can strike out hitters. Outside of a 45 year old Rocket and a 21 year old rookie, there's not much of that at all. If you put a lot of BIP (balls in play), it's going to eventually bite you.

Perhaps the Yankees will get hot and outhit the Indians. Who knows. But, I'd put my money on strong pitching over strong hitting in the playoffs any day. Pettite is going to need to deliver today if the Yankees want to win this.

[Jeff]

lol. Geoff, I am always amused at your answers when the subject involves the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry. It's like you want to please both sides. But that is fine. You are entitled to your opinion. The point I was making is that it is alright to detest the Yankees if you are a Sox fan, or vice versa. That doesn't mean you make it personal and detest the people who support the team. I have friends who are Yankees fans, and I always enjoy a conversation about baseball. I do respect the Yankees and what they have accomplished, but I do strongly dislike them for what they represent. Michael, I'm glad that you expressed your opinion, and you're entitled to it. That is what this site is all about. I am never shy about expressing my opinion. You shouldn't be.

[Geoff]

I praise what I think should be praised, and attack what I think should be attacked, Jeff. Maybe I like playing the Devil's Advocate sometimes, or bring more than just "Red Sox = Good" "Yankees = bad" response. (which I'm saying as a generalization, not an attack on you, again). I don't like the Yankees as a club past 1976, but I can't real criticize much about the team before that time. And, being that the "good old days" of the Yankees were much before my time, I really don't know what they represented. Did the clubs in the 50's and 60's (and early 70's) have the same sense of entitlement?
Jeff, when it comes right down to it I think you know that I'm as diehard of a Sox fan as it gets. It's alright to detest a club, I never said one couldn't. For me, I just like having more of a reason to dislike the club more than they're our chief division rivals and are the Yankees. That being said, I hope they don't win another regular postseason game against us for a long while.

[DRM]

I've stated this numerous times, but since it's being asked directly, bring on the Cleveland Indians in the ALCS! Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the rivalry with the Yankees, but it really peaked in the '03-'05 era....it has tailed off some the last couple of years, at least in terms of "theater."

In 2004, there was a sense that the Sox had to beat the Yanks, not the Twins, in the ALCS to make the pennant and World Championship fully legit. I don't feel that way in 2007 at all. Look, we've already beaten the Yanks in the standings, we are the AL East champs. If the Yanks don't at least get to the ALCS, they are inferior to the Red Sox by default (assuming the Sox themselves get there)

Again, don't get me wrong, I'd sign up for another October victory over NY in a heartbeat, but the Indians have plenty to offer too.

Go Tribe!

[Geoff]

It would be fun to face the Tribe in the postseason. I think we match up against them quite well. You can strike them out, and they're definitely weaker in the long series pitching wise.

[Kal]

My second best favorite team has been Indians for some years now, esp after i saw the Major League movie, Charlie Sheen with the Wild thing, good times, but this Indians team is kinda similar to the one in the movie very raw but they know their baseball, and if I am not rooting for the Sox i would be for the Indians.
Lets go Redsox and Indians.
but i think i would root for KC Royals if they were playing Yankees, even though i wounldnt mind a 04 ALCS matchup but i cant root for Indians to loose.

[Seth]

Wow.

You do realize each team has played just 2 games in the playoffs, right?

I mean, there is a LOOONG way to go in each series... the way your fanbase has been talking, it's as if both series are already over. I really can't wait to see the Yanks win the next 3 games (which I think they do)... and the way Sox fans are talking, they are begging for a 5 game knockout. Have you ever heard of a jinx???

[Seth]

And by 2 games, I of course mean 1 game.

[DRM]

Seth, it's all speculation in the name of fun. We're responding to Jeff's question. I don't recall anyone here saying we'll be there and the Yankees won't. Come on, don't be so thin-skinned

[Billy]

Along with LMT, I'm also curious to know which Yankees are arrogant prima donnas. Aside from A-Rod, I don't see any objective reason for Sox fans loathing any particular Yankees player. I know Jeter always looks like he's got a smirk on his face, but if you listen to him in interviews, he's one of the most respectful, modest guys around. I actually am reminded of Ripken when he speaks -- never an excuse for poor performance, always team first, and always tips his cap to opponents.

I guess you could point to the defectors, like Boggs, Clemens, Damon, Mientkiewicz. But did they magically turn into arrogant prima donnas by putting on pinstripes? They're the same guys who were revered by Red Sox nation when they wore THAT uniform.

If the Sox had picked up A-Rod instead of the Yanks, would he have magically become a no-nonsense, working man's hero? Why don't I read about anyone calling Dice-K arrogant? He sure seemed smarmy for the better part of the season...but because he wears a Sox uniform, he's somehow a standup guy? Did anyone from Red Sox nation accuse Big Papi of being a poor sport during the WBC when he showed up Cuba's catcher? I thought that was some of the worst sportsmanship I've ever seen in baseball and was glad he was not representing the U.S., but I still think he's an overall decent guy. And then there's Pedro -- he was confident to the point of being arrogant, but I always chalked that up to him being a true competitor who believed in himself, not to some general rule that Sox players are pompous.

I believe that Red Sox fans get so worked up about Yankees players due to the fact that the Yankees have historically beaten the Sox so many times, not that the Yankees have some uncanny knack for hiring men of poor character. As a Yanks fan, I root for my team and enjoy this rivalry, but I've never had it out for any of the Red Sox players.

[Jeff]

A-Rod, Jeter, Damon, Giambi, Clemens - they're all arrogant primadonnas to me. There have been many to wear the Yankees uniform over the years, starting in the 70s with Reggie Jackson. The Yankees have a sense of entitlement, and it is gratifying to seem them lose. You may have a different opinion, but I have mine. Sure, the Sox have had arrogant players. Every team has at least one, but over the years the Yankees have had more than their fair share. It is one of the many reasons why most people who are not part of Yankeeland don't like the Yankees.

[Billy]

No question every team has arrogant players. And there's a fine line between confident and cocky in many cases. No doubt Clemens crosses that line to the dark side...but couldn't we use him as an example that Red Sox players are arrogant? It's not like he became shady after he left Boston. And I'd say Schilling goes toe to toe with Roger in the cocky (former) ace vibe.

Giambi? I dunno. It's not like he trash talks or pumps his fist at opposing teams. He's far from my favorite Yankee, but I wouldn't accuse him of arrogance. Poor judgment or ignorance, perhaps.

The traits that lead to Jeter being considered arrogant are also seen in Big Papi, Manny, et al. I'd call it quiet confidence, which is actually a positive in ball players.

Now if the Yankees were made up of Barry Bonds, Milton Bradley, Kenny Rogers, etc., I think there'd be some veracity to claims of uniquely arrogant players. But when I think of the Yanks, guys like Matsui, Bernie, Tino, Mussina, et al come to mind. All regular guys, not flashy, try to do their jobs on field and then stay out of the spotlight after that.

One last point, which is a sincere question: How did you feel about Damon when he was at Boston?